From:
Date: 9/17/00
Time: 11:16:25 PM
I don't think anyone understands how I operate. There is no way in hell I would have said what I did about Rosa Lopez without checking it out backward and foreward fifteen times. Because she did not testify in order or in front of the jury she is not listed on the defense witness list. You will find what she said about the footsteps she heard after O.J. and Kato went to McDonalds and the voices she heard in the back yard between midnight and 12:30 in the Feb 27 transcripts. If anyone thinks I'm making this up, you can look it up. --Jasper
THE COURT: AT ANY TIME AFTER YOU WENT BACK TO YOUR BEDROOM. THE WITNESS: A LITTLE -- AROUND 9:00, A LITTLE AFTER 9:00, I SAW MR. SIMPSON THAT LEFT IN THE BLACK CAR WITH ANOTHER PASSENGER. I DON'T KNOW WHO. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU SEE WHERE MR. SIMPSON WENT AFTER 9:00 O'CLOCK IN THIS BLACK CAR? A HE WAS GOING DOWN ROCKINGHAM LIKE LOOKING FOR SUNSET. Q ALL RIGHT. WHICH DIRECTION WOULD THAT BE IF HE CAME -- WHICH GATE -- STRIKE THAT. WHICH GATE DID HE COME OUT OF? A THE ROCKINGHAM. Q AND DID YOU SEE WHAT GATE -- WHICH WAY HE TURNED ON ROCKINGHAM? A TO THE LEFT. Q ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU LOSE SIGHT OF HIM AT THAT POINT? A YES, BECAUSE HE WENT DOWN THE STREET. Q AND THE PASSENGER WHO WAS IN HIS CAR, DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT PASSENGER WAS? A NO, I DIDN'T SEE IT. Q AND WAS THAT -- A I DIDN'T SEE HIM. Q OKAY. WAS THAT -- I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, WAS THAT A MAN OR A WOMAN? A I DIDN'T SEE IT. I JUST SAW THE BLOND HAIR OR YELLOW HAIR. Q BLOND HAIR? A BLOND. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER THIS HAPPENED, DID ANYTHING ELSE HAPPEN AFTER THAT THAT WAS OF AN UNUSUAL NATURE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT'S LEADING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. ANYTHING ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION. MR. COCHRAN: I'LL RESTATE THE QUESTION. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AFTER THAT, DID ANYTHING ELSE ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION? A WELL, AROUND 9:30 OR BEFORE, I HEARD STEPS AND I WAS IN MY BEDROOM AND I DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY THEY WERE GOING. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE ON THE SALINGER'S SIDE OF THE PROPERTY OR ON MR. SIMPSON'S. Q AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE COURT THESE STEPS, HOW THEY SOUNDED? A LIKE JUST A REGULAR SHOE, SHOES. Q ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU -- WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANYONE WALKING EITHER ON THE SALINGER'S PROPERTY OR MR. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY? A NO. Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU HEARD THESE FOOTSTEPS? MR. DARDEN: THIS MUST BE NONRESPONSIVE. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. HOLD ON. MADAME INTERPRETER, DID YOU CATCH MOST OF THAT? THE INTERPRETER: YES. THE WITNESS: I WAS AFRAID BECAUSE AT THAT TIME, THE SALINGER'S DIDN'T HAVE A FENCE OR BLOCK WALL OVER THERE, AND I -- I WENT BACK REALLY FAST INSIDE TO MY BEDROOM AND I -- I WAS -- I DUCKED DOWN LIKE THIS BECAUSE I WAS REALLY AFRAID AND THEN I CAME BACK UP (INDICATING). Q BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU SAY YOU DUCKED DOWN -- MR. DARDEN: MOTION TO STRIKE. THAT'S NONRESPONSIVE. THE COURT: NO. THE QUESTION WAS, "WHAT DID YOU DO?" "I WAS AFRAID. I LOOKED DOWN AND I DUCKED DOWN." THAT IS RESPONSIVE TO THE QUESTION. NEXT QUESTION. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: DESCRIBE FOR THE COURT HOW YOU DUCKED DOWN, WHERE YOU WERE. A I BENT OVER A LITTLE BIT LIKE THIS, YOUR HONOR (INDICATING), AND I CLOSED THE WINDOW WITH MY HAND VERY, VERY SLOWLY SO NOT TO MAKE ANY NOISE SO THAT THEY WOULDN'T HEAR ME. NO WINDOW (IN ENGLISH). THE CURTAIN. Q ALL RIGHT. IS THERE A WINDOW -- IN THE PLACE WHERE YOU LIVE IN THE SALINGER'S HOME, IS THERE A WINDOW THAT FACES OUT ON MR. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY? A WELL, I SEE IT FROM MY BEDROOM WINDOW, BUT IT'S ON THE SIDE. Q AND WHICH SIDE DOES THAT WINDOW FACE, IF YOU RECALL? A TO THE SIDE WHERE THE -- MR. SIMPSON'S GATE IS ON ROCKINGHAM. Q CAN YOU LOOK AGAIN, USE YOUR GLASSES, AND LOOK AT THE MONITOR THERE? CAN YOU SEE THAT WINDOW NEAR THE ARROW WHERE YOU LIVE? A YES. Q AND WHICH WINDOW IS THAT? THE ONE DISPLAYED THERE BY THE ARROW? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER YOU DUCKED DOWN AND YOU WERE AFRAID, WHAT ELSE HAPPENED? WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? A I HEARD AGAIN THAT A CAR CAME BY AND I HEARD WHEN THEY SHUT THE DOOR AND I HEARD THAT MR. SIMPSON TALKED TO SOMEBODY FOR A FEW SECONDS? Q ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU RECOGNIZE MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THE WITNESS: YES. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: HAD YOU HEARD HIS VOICE -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. MOTION TO STRIKE. NO FOUNDATION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. LET'S GO BACK. NO FOUNDATION. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: BEFORE THIS DATE OF JUNE 12TH OF 1994, HAD YOU EVER HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE BEFORE? A MANY TIMES, BECAUSE HE PLAYED WITH HIS CHILDREN IN THE YARD WITH NICOLE AND THEY TALKED IN THE YARD. Q AND SO DID YOU HEAR MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE WHEN THIS CAR CAME BACK AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED? A YES. Q AND DID YOU RECOGNIZE THAT VOICE? A YES. Q AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE? A IN MY BEDROOM. Q ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME OF EVENING THAT WAS AT THAT TIME? A MORE OR LESS 15 TO 10:00 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q NOW, BEFORE THAT, DID YOU EVER HEAR THESE FOOTSTEPS ANYMORE THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US EARLIER? A NO. Q WERE YOU STILL AFRAID AFTER YOU HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE? A NO. NO. I FELT SAFER WHEN I FELT THAT HE CAME BACK. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW AFTER THAT, WHAT NEXT HAPPENED AFTER THAT, AFTER YOU HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE, IF YOU RECALL? A WELL, BY THEN, IT WAS 10:00 AND I HAD TO TAKE THE DOG BACK OUTSIDE. Q IS THIS THE GOLDEN RETRIEVER THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US? A YES, SIR. Q AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE COURT AGAIN WHERE YOU TOOK THE DOG ON THIS OCCASION? A I TOOK HER IN FRONT OF ROCKINGHAM. Q WERE YOU -- WAS THERE A GATE ON THE SALINGER'S PROPERTY IN FRONT OF ROCKINGHAM? A NO.
Q AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US WHERE YOU TOOK THE DOG ON THIS OCCASION? AND IF YOU WANT TO REFER TO THE MONITOR, YOU CAN SHOW US ON THAT. A I WOULD HAVE TO STAND, YOUR HONOR, BECAUSE -- THE COURT: SURE. MR. COCHRAN: I'LL TAKE THIS DOWN, YOUR HONOR, AND WE'LL REFER TO 1045, IF THE COURT PLEASES. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU POINT OUT FOR THE COURT -- A RIGHT HERE. THERE'S A BIG TREE RIGHT HERE AND HERE, AND OVER HERE. THE DOG WALKED ALL OVER THIS AREA (INDICATING). THE COURT: INDICATING THE FRONT LAWN AREA OF THAT RESIDENCE. MR. COCHRAN: OF 1045 SOUTH -- THE COURT: YES. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, I WANT TO ASK YOU, WERE YOU WEARING A WATCH AT THIS POINT AT ALL? A NO, SIR. Q AND YOU DESCRIBED THIS AS BEING SOMEWHERE AROUND 10:00 O'CLOCK. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? A I SAID A LITTLE AFTER 10:00 BECAUSE I SAW THE CLOCK IN MY BEDROOM, AND IT WAS 10:00. Q ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU SAW THE CLOCK IN YOUR BEDROOM, DID YOU DO ANYTHING INSIDE THE HOUSE BEFORE YOU CAME OUTSIDE? A YES, SIR. Q CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US WHAT THINGS YOU DID BEFORE YOU CAME OUTSIDE? AND TELL US EACH THING THAT YOU DID. A I PUT A LITTLE BIT OF WATER TO BOIL FOR SOME TEA. Q ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER YOU DID THAT -- DID YOU DRINK THE TEA AT THAT POINT? A NO. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE INSIDE THE HOUSE BEFORE YOU WENT OUTSIDE? A I TOOK OFF THIS COLLAR THAT THEY PUT ON THE DOG BECAUSE SHE BITES HERSELF. AND I LOOKED FOR THE LEASH AND I PUT THE LEASH ON THE DOG AND I WENT OUTSIDE. Q WHEN YOU SAID THE DOG WOULD BITE ITSELF OR YOU MADE A MOTION WITH YOUR HANDS, CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THE DOG WOULD DO AND WHY THE DOG HAD THIS COLLAR ON? A THE GENTLEMAN SAYS THAT SHE HAS ALLERGIES AND SHE BITES HERSELF ALL OVER WHEN THEY TAKE AWAY THAT COLLAR. Q ALL RIGHT. SO YOU TOOK THIS COLLAR OFF BEFORE YOU WENT OUTSIDE? A YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND THEN YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT YOU FOUND THE LEASH. AND CAN YOU TELL US WHERE YOU FOUND THIS LEASH, WHERE THE LEASH WAS? A YES. Q AND WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID YOU DO WITH THE LEASH? A I PUT IT ON THE DOG AND I TAKE HER OUT. Q ALL RIGHT. AND YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US THE AREA WHERE YOU WENT WHEN YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT. DID YOU -- DO YOU RECALL -- STRIKE THAT. WHEN YOU WENT OUTSIDE WITH THE DOG AFTER LEAVING YOUR ROOM, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO LOOK AT THE STREET ON ROCKINGHAM STREET? A YES. THE INTERPRETER: YOUR HONOR, CAN I INQUIRE? I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND. THE COURT: YES, YOU MAY. THE WITNESS: OH, YOU COULD SEE THE STREET JUST FINE. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND YOU COULD SEE ROCKINGHAM FROM THE LOCATION YOU DESCRIBED FOR US IN THE SALINGER'S YARD; IS THAT CORRECT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, HOW -- WHERE WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE STREET FROM? A WHERE THE DOG WAS CLOSE TO THE TREE. Q AND WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THIS BRONCO VEHICLE? A YES. MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE ANSWER IS STRICKEN. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY CARS PARKED OUT THERE ON ROCKINGHAM THERE? A YES. Q AND WHAT CAR DID YOU SEE PARKED OUT THERE, IF ANY? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: THE BRONCO. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND IF I WERE TO SHOW YOU AGAIN 62-A, ET CETERA, PLACE IT BACK UP HERE -- MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. NO FOUNDATION. OBJECTION. THIS IS LEADING. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, WAIT A MINUTE. MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. FOUNDATION. OBJECTION. THIS IS LEADING. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR -- MR. DARDEN: SAVES US SOME -- MR. COCHRAN: IT'S SAD, YOUR HONOR. IT'S SAD. WHICH OF THE TWO ARE WE GOING TO HAVE? BOTH OF THEM? MS. CLARK: IT'S MAGIC. HIS LIPS NEVER MOVED. THE COURT: I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE EITHER SHORTLY. MS. CLARK: SORRY, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: TWICE IN THE SAME SESSION, COUNSEL. MR. DARDEN: I HAVE A RIGHT TO OBJECT, CORRECT, YOUR HONOR? I WOULD LIKE TO ASSERT THIS RIGHT NOW. NO FOUNDATION. IT'S LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO -- THE COURT: ON THE FOUNDATIONAL PART OF IT. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WHEN YOU LOOKED AND YOU SAW THIS BRONCO, CAN YOU TELL THE COURT WHETHER OR NOT THE BRONCO APPEARED TO BE PARKED IN THE SAME WAY IT WAS PARKED WHEN YOU SAW IT AT 8:15 THAT NIGHT? MR. DARDEN: IT'S LEADING, YOUR HONOR. OBJECTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. AND, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW 62-A AT THIS POINT. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED 62-A, B, D AND E. AND I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO LOOK IF YOU CAN SEE THOSE, STEP DOWN WITH THE COURT'S PERMISSION. THE COURT: YES. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND AGAIN, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO LOOK -- WHEN YOU SAW THIS BRONCO VEHICLE PARKED AT THE CURB AT ROCKINGHAM, DID IT APPEAR AS IT APPEARS THERE IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS 62-A, B, DID AND E WHEN YOU SAW IT AFTER 10:00 CLOCK ON JUNE 12TH, 1994? MR. DARDEN: LEADING, YOUR HONOR. OBJECTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU MAY RESUME YOUR SEAT. NOW, MISS LOPEZ, IF YOU KNOW, ABOUT HOW LONG WERE YOU OUTSIDE WITH THE DOG BEFORE YOU NEXT WENT SOMEPLACE ELSE? A A VERY SHORT TIME. Q ALL RIGHT. AND YOU WATCHED THE DOG AND YOU HAD HIM ON A LEASH DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME, DID YOU? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU LEFT -- AT THAT POINT, DID YOU GO SOMEPLACE ELSE? A NO. I WENT BACK INSIDE MY HOUSE. Q ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU LEFT TO GO BACK INSIDE YOUR HOUSE, WAS THE BRONCO STILL PARKED AT THE CURB THE SAME WAY YOU HAD SEEN IT EARLIER? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND THEN YOU WENT BACK INSIDE YOUR HOUSE, AND WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT INSIDE THE HOUSE? A TO MY BEDROOM. Q ALL RIGHT. DID YOU GO TO YOUR BEDROOM AT THAT POINT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I PUT THE COLLAR BACK ON THE DOG, I TAKE OFF THE LEASH AND I LEAVE HER THERE AND THEN I JUST GO BACK INTO MY BEDROOM. MR. DARDEN: NONRESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR. MOTION TO STRIKE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND AFTER YOU DID THIS AND YOU WENT TO YOUR BEDROOM, WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT? WHAT DID YOU NEXT DO?
MR. DARDEN: ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. IT'S LEADING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: WATCHED T.V. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW LONG YOU WATCHED TELEVISION BEFORE SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENED? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. ASSUMES SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENED. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY, YOUR HONOR. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU WATCH TELEVISION FOR A PERIOD OF TIME? A YES. Q AND DO YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW LONG YOU WATCHED TELEVISION? A NO. Q ALL RIGHT. AT SOME POINT LATER THAT EVENING, DID YOU EVER HEAR ANY MORE VOICES? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. IT'S LEADING, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. DID ANYTHING ELSE ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. DID ANYTHING ELSE ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION -- MR. COCHRAN: SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD QUESTION TO ME. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: DID ANYTHING ELSE ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION LATER THAT EVENING? A YES. Q AND DO YOU KNOW WHEN THAT WAS, APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT WAS, MA'AM? A ABOUT 11:00 P.M., I HEARD THE VOICE AND I COULDN'T DISTINGUISH WHAT MR. SIMPSON WAS SAYING. BUT I HEARD THE VOICE, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE SAID. Q ALL RIGHT. AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S NONRESPONSIVE. MR. COCHRAN: IT'S RESPONSIVE. MR. DARDEN: HE ASKED WHEN THAT WAS, APPROXIMATE TIME. MR. COCHRAN: SHE SAID 11:00 O'CLOCK. MR. DARDEN: I THINK WE HAVE FOUR LINES OF DIALOGUE AFTER THAT. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: WHAT PORTION, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: IT'S STRICKEN, THE PART THAT'S NOT RESPONSIVE AFTER 11:00 O'CLOCK. WHEN WAS THAT, THEN WHAT WAS THAT. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, YOU HEARD SOME CONVERSATION. WILL YOU TELL US WHAT WAS THAT THAT YOU HEARD AT THAT POINT? A I DIDN'T HEARD WHAT WAS SAID. I JUST HEARD THAT THEY TALKED. Q AND YOU HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE, DID YOU? A YES. Q DID YOU RECOGNIZE ANY OTHER VOICES THAT YOU HEARD THAT NIGHT AT THAT TIME? A NO. NO. Q ALL RIGHT. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER YOU HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE? WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? A THEN EVERYTHING WAS QUIET. Q AND AFTER EVERYTHING WAS QUIET, WHERE WERE YOU INSIDE YOUR HOUSE, INSIDE THE SALINGER'S HOUSE? A AT THAT TIME, I'M ALWAYS IN MY BEDROOM ALL THE TIME. Q NOW, AFTER THAT, DID SOMETHING ELSE DRAW YOUR ATTENTION AFTER YOU HAD HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE AND AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME PASSED? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS HAS TESTIFIED THAT EVERYTHING WAS QUIET AFTER. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: DID THERE COME A TIME WHEN THINGS WEREN'T QUIET IN AND AROUND THE -- YOUR RESIDENCE OR MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE? MR. DARDEN: THAT'S LEADING, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: DID THERE COME A TIME? A ABOUT 12:00 MIDNIGHT, I HEARD THAT -- MEN THAT WERE TALKING ON THE ROCKINGHAM SIDE AND HIS DOG, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS NAME IS, THAT IT'S A BLACK DOG WAS BARKING A LOT. Q WHAT TIME WAS THIS? A ABOUT 12:00 MIDNIGHT. Q AND DO YOU KNOW THAT DOG'S NAME? A NO, SIR. Q IS THAT MR. SIMPSON'S DOG? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. MR. DARDEN: HOW DOES SHE KNOW MR. SIMPSON'S DOG? MR. COCHRAN: SHE LIVED NEXT DOOR FOR THREE YEARS. SO I THINK SHE PROBABLY -- MS. CLARK: I AM SORRY, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WILL STAND. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU HEARD THE DOG BARKING? A HE BARKED AND HE CRIED, SIR. Q AND HOW LONG DID YOU HEAR THIS DOG BARKING, IF YOU RECALL? A ABOUT A QUARTER TO 1:00, ABOUT 15 TO 1:00. Q AND THESE VOICES THAT YOU HAD HEARD THAT YOU SAID WERE NEAR ROCKINGHAM, HOW LONG DID THOSE VOICES CONTINUE? A I DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION BECAUSE I WASN'T INTERESTED IN -- IN -- I'M NOT INTERESTED IN WATCHING THE TIME. I DIDN'T SEE THE CLOCK. MAYBE 12:30, 12:40. I DON'T -- I DON'T KNOW. Q ALL RIGHT. SO TO BE CLEAR, YOU FIRST HEARD THE VOICES ABOUT MIDNIGHT? MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, WE ARE CLEAR. THIS IS LEADING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD THESE VOICES ON THIS EARLY MORNING? A AROUND 12:30 I THINK. Q ALL RIGHT. AND AT THE TIME THAT YOU LAST HEARD THESE VOICES ABOUT 12:30, DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT THE DOG WAS STILL BARKING DURING THIS TIME? A YES. Q AND CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER OR NOT YOU EVER SAW ANY PERSONS OUTSIDE NEAR ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU HEARD THESE VOICES? A I WAS VERY SCARED AND I WASN'T ABOUT TO OPEN MY WINDOW WHEN I FIRST HEARD THE STEPS, THE FOOTSTEPS. I DON'T -- Q YOU DIDN'T HEAR -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT'S NONRESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR. MOTION TO STRIKE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REASK THE QUESTION. THE ANSWER IS STRICKEN. MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU EVER -- WHEN YOU HEARD THESE MEN'S VOICES ABOUT 12:00 MIDNIGHT, DID YOU EVER LOOK OUTSIDE AND SEE ANY MEN OUTSIDE NEAR ROCKINGHAM? MR. DARDEN: IT'S COMPOUND. THE COURT: ASSUMES THAT IT'S MEN TOO. MR. COCHRAN: I THOUGHT SHE SAID MEN. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WHEN YOU HEARD THESE VOICES OUTSIDE, DID YOU EVER LOOK OUTSIDE AND SEE ANYONE? A NO. Q DID YOU EVER LOOK OUTSIDE AND SEE THE DOG AT ANY TIME AFTER YOU HEARD THE DOG START TO BARK? A NO, BECAUSE I HAD MY CURTAINS CLOSED. I DON'T LOOK OUTSIDE. Q ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT HOW LONG THE DOG CONTINUED TO BARK, IF YOU KNOW? MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: FOR A LONG TIME, SIR. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU CONTINUE TO REMAIN AWAKE DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME OR DID YOU FALL ASLEEP OR WHAT HAPPENED? A I -- I FELL ASLEEP LATER. Q ALL RIGHT. AND CAN YOU TELL THE COURT WHAT TIME IT WAS THAT YOU FELL ASLEEP THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT? A I DIDN'T SEE THE CLOCK, WHAT TIME I FELL ASLEEP. Q ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU FELL ASLEEP AT ALL? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER. THE WITNESS: ABOUT 2:00 IN THE MORNING, 2:00 A.M. I THINK. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YOU WEREN'T LOOKING AT YOUR CLOCK AT THAT POINT? A NO, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU FELL ASLEEP, DO YOU REMEMBER WHETHER OR NOT THE -- THERE WAS ANY NOISE FROM THE DOG BARKING AT 360 ROCKINGHAM JUST BEFORE YOU FELL ASLEEP, IF YOU REMEMBER? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER YOU FELL ASLEEP SOMETIME AFTER 2:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT TIME YOU WOKE UP ON MONDAY, JUNE 13TH, 1994? A I GOT UP ABOUT 8:00 IN THE MORNING BECAUSE THE GARDENERS CAME. THAT'S WHAT TIME THE GARDENERS COME. Q AND DO THE GARDENERS COME -- DO THEY COME EVERY MONDAY AT THAT TIME BACK IN JUNE OF 1994? A THEY -- THEY COME 15 MINUTES EARLIER OR LATER, AND -- BUT THEY'RE THERE AT 8:00 O'CLOCK AND THEY MAKE A LOT OF NOISE WITH THE BLOWER. Q AND THE BLOWER SOUND AWAKENED YOU; IS THAT CORRECT? A NO. WELL, I GOT UP, YOU SEE, BECAUSE THE GARDENERS WERE ALREADY THERE. Q ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER YOU GOT UP, DID SOMEONE COME TO YOUR DOOR AT SOME POINT THAT MORNING? MR. DARDEN: THIS IS LEADING, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: SOMEBODY RANG THE DOORBELL. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND THIS -- THE DOORBELL THIS PERSON RANG, DO YOU KNOW OR CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE COURT WHERE THAT WAS IN RELATION TO YOUR -- WHERE YOU LIVED, THE PORTION OF THE HOUSE THAT YOU OCCUPIED IN THE SALINGER'S HOME? A IT'S AT THE DOOR WHERE THE -- THE OWNERS OF THE HOUSE GO IN. Q ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU ABLE -- IF YOU LOOK AT THE MONITOR AGAIN, ARE YOU ABLE TO FIND THAT DOOR AT ANYPLACE ON THE MONITOR THERE ON DEFENDANT'S 1044? A THIS IS WAY TOO SMALL, SIR. I CAN'T SEE THAT. Q ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. SO WHEN SOMEONE WAS AT THE DOOR, WHAT DID YOU DO? A I OPENED THE DOOR. WELL, NO. EXCUSE ME. FIRST I ASKED WHO IS IT, WHO IS IT. Q ALL RIGHT. DO YOU REMEMBER -- A AND HE SAID, "I AM LOS ANGELES POLICE." Q AND COULD YOU SEE -- A "I AM A POLICEMAN FROM LOS ANGELES." Q ALL RIGHT. COULD YOU SEE THIS PERSON AT THAT POINT? A THEN I OPENED THE DOOR. Q ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU OPENED THE DOOR, WHAT DID YOU SEE, IF ANYTHING? DID YOU SEE A MALE OR FEMALE? A A MALE. Q AND AT THAT POINT, DID YOU HAVE SOME CONVERSATION WITH THIS PERSON? A HE TOLD ME, "I'M DETECTIVE MIKE FUHRMAN."
Q WELL, JUST A MOMENT. DID HE SAY -- COULD YOU SAY THAT NAME AGAIN? A I CAN'T PRONOUNCE IT VERY WELL. Q ALL RIGHT. A YOU CAN PRONOUNCE IT BETTER THAN I CAN. MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)
MR. COCHRAN: THE ONLY REASON I WANTED TO APPROACH THE BENCH, IT SEEMED TO ME SHE SAID MARK FUHRMAN. THE INTERPRETER SAID MIKE FUHRMAN. WE WERE LISTENING. SO I THINK -- THE COURT: THAT'S WHAT THE INTERPRETER SAID, BUT I THOUGHT THE WITNESS SAID "MARK." WHY DON'T YOU GO BACK AND CLARIFY THAT. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN: ARE WE JUST KILLING TIME OR SOMETHING HERE OR WHAT? MR. COCHRAN: WE ARE KILLING TIME WITH ALL YOUR OBJECTIONS. THE COURT: HOW LATE DO YOU WANT TO GO? MR. DARDEN: JUDGE, IF YOU KNEW WHAT I KNEW, YOU WOULD JUST WANT TO GO ALL NIGHT ON THIS. BUT, YOU KNOW -- THE COURT: I'M PROBABLY GOING TO QUIT AT 4:30. MR. DARDEN: I'M HOPING MY INVESTIGATORS WILL GET IN HERE BECAUSE I MAY -- THE COURT: WHEN WE QUIT AT 4:30, WE'LL BRING PAVELIC IN AND PUT ON THE RECORD THAT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN TURNED OVER. MS. CLARK: WE ARE ASSUMING FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. THE COURT: YES. AND WE KNOW -- MR. COCHRAN: JUDGE -- THE COURT: -- THEY'VE BEEN TWICE BURNED NOW. MR. COCHRAN: JUDGE, CAN I SAY SOMETHING? LET ME SAY SOMETHING. MS. CLARK: NO. PLEASE, NOT NOW. MR. COCHRAN: AFTER YOU MAKE THESE STATEMENTS, THEN YOU WANT TO WALK AWAY, AND I'M NOT GOING TO LET YOU DO THAT. THERE IS -- WHEN YOU HAVE I SUPPOSE EIGHT, NINE, 10 LAWYERS, YOU TRY TO MAKE SURE YOU GET EVERYTHING. THE COURT: LET'S NOT ARGUE THIS POINT NOW. MS. CLARK: AND I'M LESS THAN SYMPATHETIC.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MRS. LOPEZ, WHEN THIS POLICE OFFICER IDENTIFIED HIMSELF TO YOU, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT NAME HE GAVE YOU? THE WITNESS: MARK FRAMEMAN. HE TOLD ME MARK FRAMEMAN. THE COURT: THANK YOU. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU AFTER HE SAID HIS NAME WAS MARK FUHRMAN? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL -- THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: I APOLOGIZE, YOUR HONOR. MR. DARDEN: I HAD MISS LEWIS IN THIS SITUATION, YOUR HONOR. THEY BOTH OBJECTED. MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, I'M WHISPERING IN HIS EAR. MR. DARDEN: THERE'S AN OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. THE COURT: DOESN'T LOOK TERRIFIC. MR. COCHRAN, WOULD YOU CONTINUE, PLEASE. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WHAT DID THIS INDIVIDUAL SAY TO YOU AFTER THAT, MA'AM? A HE IDENTIFIED WITH A SMALL PLAQUE. MR. DARDEN: NOT RESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR. MOTION TO STRIKE. MR. COCHRAN: IT'S RESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: HE IDENTIFIED WITH WHAT? A WITH A THING -- HE IDENTIFIED HIMSELF WITH SOMETHING IN HIS HAND. Q WAS IT A BADGE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT'S LEADING. THE WITNESS: YES. MR. DARDEN: MOTION TO STRIKE. THE COURT: THAT WAS LEADING. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS. THE COURT: NO. YOU SAID WAS IT A BADGE. YOU CAN ASK HER TO DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS. MR. DARDEN: IS IT STRICKEN? THE COURT: IT'S STRICKEN, BUT I KNOW WHAT THE NEXT QUESTION AND ANSWER IS GOING TO BE. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS THAT HE HAD IN HIS HAND? A IT WAS LIKE A LITTLE -- LIKE WHEN ONE HAS A DRIVER'S LICENSE, LIKE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THE INTERPRETER: YOUR HONOR, INTERPRETER'S COMMENT. THE COURT: YES. THE INTERPRETER: WHEN SHE SAID A LITTLE PLAQUETA, PERHAPS I SHOULD HAVE INTERPRETED A BADGE INSTEAD OF A SMALL -- THE COURT: WELL, PLAQUETA -- I HEARD THE WITNESS SAY PLAQUETA, AND WE CAN INVITE DR. REINARF FROM UCLA TO TELL US WHAT PLAQUETA IS. THANK YOU. WE'LL PROCEED. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THIS PLAQUETA ANYMORE FOR US? A THAT IT HAD HIS NAME ON IT. Q DID IT HAVE ANY PICTURES ON IT, PICTURES? A I DIDN'T NOTICE. Q ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER THAT, TELL US WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT. A WELL, BECAUSE I CAN SEE -- I CAN SEE FINE OUTSIDE, BUT HE COULD NOT SEE ME WELL INSIDE. Q AND WHAT HAPPENED? A BECAUSE IT'S A METAL DOOR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND THEN DID SOMETHING HAPPEN WITH REGARD TO THAT? A YES. HE TOLD ME, "LADY OR WOMAN, I DON'T SEE YOUR FACE." Q AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT? A I SAID, "EXCUSE ME. I WILL OPEN THE DOOR FOR YOU RIGHT NOW." Q ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU OPEN THE DOOR AT THAT POINT? A YES. Q ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER YOU OPENED THE DOOR, WHAT HAPPENED THEN? A HE ASKED ME IF I WAS THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE. Q AND WHAT DID YOU RESPOND? A I SAID NO. Q AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT? A I SAID, "I'M THE HOUSEKEEPER." AND HE SAID, "WHAT IS YOUR NAME?" Q AND WHAT DID YOU SAY? A I SAID ROSA LOPEZ. Q ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM, WAS HE WRITING ANY OF THIS DOWN? A NO. Q ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU GAVE HIM -- AFTER YOU GAVE HIM YOUR NAME, WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT? A HE ASKED ME FOR PERMISSION TO GO TO THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOUSE.
Q AND CAN YOU LOOK AGAIN AT THAT MONITOR OR YOU MIGHT HAVE TO STEP DOWN AND SHOW US -- STRIKE THAT. DID YOU GIVE HIM PERMISSION TO GO TO THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOUSE? A YES, I DID, BECAUSE IT WAS THE POLICE. Q AND DID HE LEAVE THE DOOR AND GO SOMEPLACE AT THAT POINT? A HE WENT TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. Q AND WOULD THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, WOULD THAT BE THE AREA IN WHICH YOU HAD WALKED THE DOG EARLIER IN THE EVENING, IN THE REAR PORTION OF THE SALINGER'S RESIDENCE? A YES. Q DID YOU GO BACK THERE WITH THIS MAN AT THAT POINT? A NO. Q DO YOU KNOW, IF YOU KNOW, WAS HE WITH ANYONE ELSE AT THIS POINT OR WAS HE BY HIMSELF IF YOU COULD TELL? A HE WAS WITH ANOTHER PERSON. Q WAS THAT A MALE OR A FEMALE? A MALE. Q AND WHERE WAS THIS -- WHERE WAS THIS MAN WHO WAS WITH HIM? A HE SAID HE WAS ANOTHER POLICEMAN. Q AND WHEN YOU GAVE THEM PERMISSION TO GO IN THE BACKYARD THERE, DID THEY LEAVE YOUR SIGHT AT SOME POINT? A YES. WELL, THEY WENT TO THE BACK AND I DIDN'T FOLLOW THEM. Q ALL RIGHT. AND DID -- AT SOME POINT THEREAFTER, DID THEY COME BACK, HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH YOU? MR. DARDEN: THAT'S LEADING, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: SHE CAN ANSWER THAT YES OR NO. IT'S FOUNDATIONAL. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: THE FIRST MAN WHO KNOCKED ON MY DOOR CAME BACK. Q BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU HAVE A FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH HIM AT THAT POINT? A YES. Q CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU SAID AND WHAT HE SAID? A HE SAID, "THANK YOU VERY MUCH," AND AT THAT TIME, I SAID -- AND THEN HE SAID TO ME, "TELL THE GARDENERS THAT IF ANYTHING STRANGE THAT THEY FIND IN THE YARD OR -- NOT TO TOUCH, CALL THE POLICE" (IN ENGLISH). Q ALL RIGHT. DID HE SAY ANYTHING ELSE TO YOU AT THAT POINT? A AFTER THAT, BECAUSE I HAD SEEN SO MANY POLICE OFFICERS AND SO MANY CAMERAS AND SO MANY THINGS, I ASKED, "WHAT HAPPENED? WHAT'S HAPPENING?" AND HE SAID, "SOMETHING HORRIBLE HAS HAPPENED ON THE OTHER SIDE." AND I ASKED HIM, "IS MR. SIMPSON DEAD OR WOUNDED," AND HE SAID NO. Q AND WHAT HAPPENED THEN? A AND THEN I SAID -- AND THEN HE SAID, "WHY?" "BECAUSE LAST NIGHT, VERY LATE, I HEARD VOICES. I HEARD MEN THAT WERE TALKING IN THE BACK OF THE YARD." Q YOU TOLD THIS DETECTIVE THAT? A YES, SIR. Q ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU TOLD HIM THAT, WHAT DID HE SAY, IF ANYTHING? A AND HE ASKED ME IF I HAD HEARD A WOMAN SCREAMING OR SCREAMS OF A WOMAN AND VOICES, WOMEN VOICES. Q AND WHAT DID YOU SAY, IF ANYTHING? A I SAY -- I SAID NO, THEY WERE MEN. AND HE ASKED ME IF IT WAS MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE. Q WHAT DID YOU SAY? A I SAID NO, I DON'T KNOW. Q AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT? A AND AFTER THAT, HE TOLD ME, "WE ARE GOING TO SEND THE POLICE SO THAT YOU CAN GIVE TESTIMONY TO THE POLICE."
Q AND AFTER HE TOLD YOU THAT, DID ANY POLICE OFFICER FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT EVER COME OUT TO INTERVIEW YOU AFTER THAT? A I'M STILL WAITING FOR THEM TELL HIM. Q NOW, THIS INTERVIEW WITH THIS DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN, WHAT TIME OF MORNING WAS THAT, IF YOU RECALL? A ABOUT 8:30. Q AND THAT'S ON WHAT DATE? MONDAY, JUNE 13TH? A JUNE THE 13TH, ON MONDAY. Q AND WHILE YOU WERE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WITH THIS GENTLEMAN, WERE THE GARDENERS STILL THERE AT THAT POINT? A YES. Q AT ANY POINT WHILE YOU WERE TALKING WITH THIS INDIVIDUAL, DID YOU EVER SEE HIM WRITE DOWN ANY NOTES OF ANY KIND? A HE DIDN'T WRITE ANYTHING DOWN. Q DID YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH HIM AFTER HE TOLD YOU THAT SOMEONE WOULD BE COMING TO INTERVIEW YOU FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT'S ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: THEY NEVER CAME BACK.