Subj: Re: Simpson case
Date: 97-02-28 10:15:00 EST
From: Lion
To: Wildcat
CC: All
Wildcat Your objections on the way the people in Florida are responding to the
idea of Simpson moving there are a bit surprising to me, in view of the fact that you
believe Simpson is a killer! I think I would better understand if your opinion was one of
innocence. This man is a killer, there is no doubt about it! He nearly decapitated his
ex-wife, and took the life of a young man who was just in the wrong place at the wrong
time. Isnt that enough? Does he have to slaughter a dozen people to be considered
unfit for society? Twelve makes him a monster, but two doesnt? How can anyone put
this crime behind them and accept him in their community, even to the smallest
degree...Perhaps he should live in a Black community, where most of his support is!
Dont misconstrue that as a "racist" comment. I just see it as a logical
solution to his problem! Lion
Subj: Re: Simpson case
Date: 97-02-28 14:16:12 EST
From: Pat
To: Wildcat, Lion
CC: All
Sounds a little racist to me. Remember, O J Simpson was found NOT GUILTY in a court of
law. This entitles him to go on with his life (with what little he has left when the
vultures get through with him) and raise his kids anywhere he wants to live. I thought the
United States of America was a free country. Maybe Im wrong. Pat (Crowe)
Subj: Re Simpson
Date: 97-02-28 16:26:50 EST
From: Hhhana
To: Pat
CC: Lion, Judge, Rabne, Tiger, Trille, Trooper
Hi gang Had to weigh in on this one. Sounds a tad racist to me, if there could be
such a thing as a tad in this department. Do we have "a black community"
anymore? I thought most communities were integrated (except in Idaho). If anyone lives in
a community with no blacks, I hope he moves there with you and I hope he brings all of us
in the community who support him with him! Paula
Subj: Re: Simpson case
From: Jaguar
Date: Friday, February 28, 1997 7:08 PM
To: Tiger, Patricia Whetham, Wildcat, Lion
CC: Chameleon, Connie, Trille, Panther, Leopard, Judge, Hope, Trooper, Judi, Kim
Pat Since when is there a Constitutional guarantee of carrying on a normal life
just because of an acquittal? Remember the finding in the civil trial? Does that make it a
wash? Many people perceive OJ Simpson as a murderer, and do not want him around. Is that a
violation of his rights?
The Constitution gives the people the right of free speech. Theyre saying
"Go away." He doesnt have to listen. He can move next door. But they can
call it as they see it. Jaguar
Tiger writes:
Well, he IS a murderer. Its just that hes not a murderer "BEYOND a
reasonable doubt." The evidence, however, easily met the lower standard of proof for
the civil trial. So we can call him a murderer. He was found to be a murderer in a civil
court. Its just that, because the evidence could only meet a lower standard of
proof, then they can only go after his wallet. But it still makes him a murderer. And we
know he is. So him being "perceived" as a murderer and having people "not
want him around" is far from a violation of his rights, but, rather, a response to
the fact he is, of course, a murderer. Tiger
Subj: Re: Simpson case
Date: 97-02-28 19:48:23 EST
From: Pat
To: Tiger, Wildcat, Lion, Jaguar
CC: Chameleon, Connie, Trille, Panther, Leopard, Judge, Hope, Trooper, Judi, Kim
Horsefeathers. He was found NOT GUILTY in a criminal court which is a hell of a lot
more meaningful than the Goldmans and the Browns going out for money. If the trial had
been fair I might have agreed with you. That civil trial was a farce, from the all-white
jury to the judge who was sure OJ was guilty and slanted every decision to that end. They
couldnt win in a fair trial so the judge had to help them. There were so many errors
made that the case would be overturned if the appellate judges in California were not
afraid of public opinion. The woman from Sojourn should not have been let inwho the
hell is Nicole? No last name, no nothin. The lie detector, garbage. There was not
one ruling Fuji made that went to the defense. It was a kangaroo court and was not as
important as the criminal trial beyond a reasonable doubt. Pat (Crowe)
Subj: Re: Simpson case
Date: 97-02-28
From: Lion
To: Pat
CC: Tiger, Wildcat, Jaguar, Chameleon, Connie, Trille, Panther, Leopard, Judge,
Hope120, Trooper, Judi, Kim
CROWE In any other criminal trial a "Not Guilty" verdict might have
meant something! In the Simpson trial it was a travesty of justice! He was set free
because of injustices done to the African-American people for years. Add to that his
celebrity, his money, his charisma and one Johnnie Cochran and suddenly murder becomes
legal in California! Now, where did you get your law degree? Seems you have the legal
knowledge to decide what should have been allowed and what shouldnt have been
allowed in the civil trial! You also are clairvoyant! You already know what the appeal
judges are going to do! Wow, what a gal! Lion
Subj: Re: Simpson case
Date: 97-02-28 21:24:31 EST
From: Christine (Trille)
To: Lion
CC: Pat, Tiger, Wildcat, Jaguar, Chameleon, Connie, Panther, Leopard, Judge, Hope,
Trooper, Judi, Kim
Hey Lionwe all know the case. You dont have to explain anything to Crowe;
she knows as much as you do. So get off your high horse! Trille
Subj: Re: Re Where I live
Date: 97-02-28 21:27:57 EST
From: Tiger
To: Hhhana
CC: Pat (Crowe) Rabne, Trille, Trooper
PaulaSounds like you dont have an inner city like so many of us. Heaven it
aint, because heaven has poor people, and I bet you dont. Have you checked
with your neighbors about the reception they would give Simpson? Sounds like a great place
to visit..... Enjoy it anyway....Tiger
Subj: Re: Where I live
Date: Friday, February 28, 1997 9:18 PM
From: Paula P Duke (Hhhana)
To: Tiger
CC: Pat, Rabne, Trille, Trooper
Tiger I guess I live in heaven. I think its earth, good ol US of A.
We live together here, all of us. Jane Pauley, NBC News has a home here. Richard Gephart
has one, too. John Dupont, now convicted of murder, owns a mansion here. The
caretakers cottage is 3 times bigger than my home.
Jesse Jackson has visited many times and will probably build here. Hes looked us
over and likes what he sees. Wouldnt mind OJ coming on down with those beautiful
children. A lot of us think he did it. I say no. But if he comes well be glad to
have him here.
We only have one community and thats the community of mankind. To quote a famous
author, "nuff said." Paula
Subj: In the Ring
Date: 97-03-01 06:25:59 EST
From: Hhhana
To: Trooper, Pat
Hey Pat Im telling you, girl, these people are dead serious in their
attacks. Every time I send out a "zinger," I click the send button and I feel
like a matador standing in the ring with three bulls, waving a BIG RED FLAG! What a rip!
The thing that always amazes and angers me is the way they say these terribly racist
things then immediately attach a disclaimer "That isnt meant to be
racist."
I think all three of them sit down at the computer with their robes and hoods on. This
morning I can laugh at them, but in the heat of reading the garbage they send through
space, I give them just what they want. I get so angry, I sit here screaming filthy words
at a computer which has never done anything to hurt me! I hope they never get the
satisfaction of knowing it.
What did Tiger call Leo Terrell, "screaming meemie?" Well, thats me. I
get so jacked up I shake. I have nightmares about living in a world ruled by "The Big
3." Could you imagine? Whew, thank you God its only a dream... Then I get up,
flip on the TV, and we are really living in a world thats influenced by a monster
just as bad, the media.
Have a good one, and be good to yourself.
Keep on dodging those horns. Paula
Subj: In the Ring
Date: 97-03-01
From: Pat
To: Hhhana, Trooper
Paula I think Im the victim of the old kiss and slap again. I hadnt
gotten any e-mail from any of the big three for quite a while (except for the virus
warnings) then all of a sudden Im getting mail from all of them. The first few were
OK. Then I said something they didnt like and wham I got slapped. The only thing
that bothered me was I think I got Christine a little upset. That I really dont want
to do.
I am still picturing the big three sitting in their robes and hoods. I guess
thats my joke of the day. What a bunchI havent gotten any mail from
Jasper for a few days. I dont know if he hasnt sent any or what. Im
still getting blanks from Judge except when he sends through AOL. I hope it gets cleared
up as Id love to hear what he has to say. Pat
P.S. I know what you mean about getting mad at some of the junk. I know when I answer,
Im going to get slammed but what the hell. It makes life interesting. As I told
Judge, thats what the delete button is for. I got 2 more nasties from Lion this AM.
I havent decided whether or not to answer them.
Subj: Having a heat wave?
Date: 97-03-01 21:50:01 EST
From: Hhhana
To: Trooper, Pat
Hi gang Just got home. Looks like you and I started a heat wave, Pat. Its
good to know we get them "clicking away" on the keys.
Jasper, Im glad you are taking a look at my thoughts on the connection needed to
make MF even a more obvious suspect than he is now.
OJ said he thought the answer to the killings could be found in the world of Faye
Resnick. I have always thought the answer will be found in the complex world of Nicole
herself. It was as though she was living 2 lives and crossing paths in two totally
different atmospheres. We know some of the players; we just need to know their stories and
how their interaction with Nicole would help to unravel this thing.
Wish I knew more about:
Ron Goldman
Faye Resnick
Robin Greer
Keith Zlomozwich
Cora Fischman
Marcus Allen & his wife
Denise Brown
Youve got a waiterwould-be model, would-be actor; a fast mover, drug
abuser; a fast mover, actress; a restaurant mgr., once engaged to a hooker, sleazy; a mom,
close friend, homemaker; an athlete, wife, model (Nicole thought OJ bought jewelry for the
wife, Marcus had an affair with Nicole but denied it); a fast mover, alcohol problem,
party girl.
Faye has now written 2 books, but she is a pathological liar and anything about her
will have to come from another source. What we really need is something from Cora. I think
she knows so much. I also think she knows the connection between Nicole and MF [Editors
note: The answer lies in the identity of the person Nicole didnt trust, whose name
Judge Fujisaki had scratched from the civil trial record. If that person had any
connection to Fuhrmans pal, Ron Shipp, then he or she also had a connection to
Fuhrman, which Nicole need not have been aware of]. She doesnt talk and I have
to wonder if its because she is afraid of reprisal from MF.
Something to think about... Paula
Subj: Re: Having a heat wave?
Date: 97-03-02 13:55:53 EST
From: Pat
To: Trooper, Hhhana
Paula Do you know what I think they all had in common? Drugs. I could be wrong
but it seems to be a thread running through a lot of these peoples lives. Pat
Subj: Your lonely e-mail
Date: 97-03-01 22:21:46 EST
From: Hhhana
To: Pat
CC: Trooper
Hi Pat That was a nastygram you got from the new person on the block. I got one
zinger from Lion but it was addressed to you. She still doesnt see it.
I didnt answer it.
I dont live in a big city. I did live in a fairly large one before we moved here.
There were communities that had a majority of one race, but if you really looked there was
always a mix.
I think just the fact Lion doesnt see anybody else in these communities shows the
racism she is always so busy denying, dont you? It would be so easy to ignore all of
them but how will any of us ever get the message across that way? It has to start
somewhere, maybe with us, but it sure makes me overwhelmingly sad.
I cant help but wonder about the children that live in the homes where the
computers sit spitting out the hate at us. When integration was first planned, the
government thought it best to start with the children, easier; I wrote a paper on it once.
The failure in the theory was caused by the home life of the children. You cant make
changes from the bottom up; it has to be from the top down. Thats why I still take a
stab at pointing out the dangerous tone of "their" e-mail. Time for
bed....work tomorrow.
Good night, Pat.
Good night, Jasper
(Good night, John Boy) Paula
Subj: Re: Your lonely e-mail
Date: 97-03-02 14:00:18 EST
From: Pat
To: Hhhana
CC: Trooper
Paula I think youre right about starting with the adults. When I was a kid
in Northern Ontario, I never saw a black person. There were very few but Sudbury was a mix
of ethnic (mostly European) people. I remember going home and asking my father what a DP
was. I got a lecture and was told it was an ethnic slur and was not to be used in our
home. My father was an alcoholic, who worked every day of his adult life, was taken out of
school when he was 13. He was an uneducated man ( by most peoples standards) but he
read everything he could get his hands on even our school history books, etc. He was of
white Anglo-Saxon Protestant background and when he married my French-speaking,
convent-raised mother even some in his own family (my paternal grandparents) gave him a
rough time. My grandparents came around after a while and I think it was a good lesson for
them. You cant judge a person by the colour of their skin or their background or
their religious beliefs. If everyone judged people by " the content of their
character" the world would be a better place. Pat
Subj: Re: In the Ring
Date: 97-03-02 00:24:35 EST
From: Trooper
To: Hhhana
CC: All
PaulaLook a little closer at what you FORCED Lion to say. Her only defense
against your well-considered assertion of racism, is a silly semantic straw-man she had to
create to have something to knock down. How else does one justify the race-based
"logic" of her solution to where OJ and his children should livea solution
that ignores the possibility of a mixed community of supporters? Her words, in context,
speak for themselves. I have made them a part of my permanent collection of racist high
art.
The very idea of OJ moving to a black community "where his support is the
strongest" ignores the fact that 30 % of "THE black community" is on her
side and 30 % of THE white community is on his side. Lion spoke of a [specific] community.
How about a white one where his support is the strongest? Or, as you so elegantly
suggested, a community without regard to race.
THE community (in general) and A (particular) community are clearly different things.
THE racist community, for example, can exist in various places throughout the world in
greater or lesser concentrations here or there, even in cyberspace. But if we wish to talk
about a particular racist community in cyberspace... Wait a minute. Didnt somebody I
know try that once?
Bad idea.
Bloodied but not beaten. Trooper1
Subj: Re: In the Ring
Date: 97-03-02 00:40:58 EST
From: Lion
To: Trooper
CC: All
Trooper173, it seems you are always ready, willing and able to fan the flames of
racism! I asked that my message not be misconstrued but, of course, someone like you would
rather see it as racist so you could continue to fan those flames! Well, Trooper, whatever
floats your boat. Maybe some day you will find a way to see other people for what they
really are, and not what you think they are. Im sorry for you. Lion
Subj: Re: In the Ring
Date: 97-03-02 11:38:26 EST
From: Judge
To: Trooper
CC: Lion, Pat, Tiger, Hhhana,
Trooper Good Morning. Very well stated. In fact, it was similar to my private
comment to Lion when I read her post on Friday. The difference between "the"
community and "a" community is clear. Therefore, there was absolutely no logic
to her statement. I refuse to argue whether something said is or is not
"racist." (The thing said is what it is regardless how you define it.) It just
seems to be a useless effort. If Lion took time to read what you were saying she would not
have gotten stuck on the question of race which I did not see as a part of your answer but
rather a reference back to Paulas response.
I doubt if Lion intended her comment to be viewed as "racist." Certainly she
had to know there were those who would not allow the many voices in "the African
Community(s)" be lumped together as monolithic opinion. The intelligent speaker
always considers the words impact on the listener. Words and actions are said to
define the person. One must take care when speaking or he could offend when no offense is
meant. If Lion really did not intend to offend with words that reasonably could be
considered as evidence of a "racist mentality" not withstanding her statement
declaring no intent to offend, all she had to do is admit that she was not careful in her
use of the language.
I think she tried to clarify her response to me, which is on my laptop at work. The
effort still did not recognize the failure to make a major distinction. Nor have her
responses to the e-mail group, which has many African-Americans of many opinions,
recognized that what she said may have been careless in her use of words. To say I did not
mean this as racist is not enough if the failure to be sensitive, when pointed out, is not
recognized. If I have missed something I am sure I will be corrected.
I guess now I will be viewed a racist for calling it like I see it. No problem, I can
take the heat. Judge
Subj: Aint we got fun?
Date: 97-03-02 20:50:02 EST
From: Hhhana
To: Pat
CC: Trooper
Dear Friends It really is a victory to catch the wise one with her pants down,
isnt it? I have never seen a small group of people write such blistering racial
ignorance, then smile and curtsy with a slamming disclaimer regarding it. Every racist
remark is immediately followed by "I hope you wont construe this as
racist."
She knows what it is, and this one small victory feels so great!
I worry about Judge, though. He doesnt take a stand....If you take apart the
gentle criticism he dispatched, the message is there. His problem with her statement seems
not to be the fact it was a racist remark but that she didnt think about the
feelings of the people who would read it. Does that make sense [Editors note: My
thoughts were exactly the same as Hhhanas. The man seemed to me to have the backbone
of a jellyfish--and a superior attitude about it. Whats that? A jellyfish has no
backbone? In that case, Judge seemed to me to have the backbone of a...jellyfish]?
The way I see it, you call it what it is...RACIST!
It seems like were watching some kind of seduction that will steal your spirit
and rob you of reason....kind of like "Come into my parlor, said the spider to the
fly." Jasper, I know you tried to warn him and I know he thinks these are good people
hes dealing with. Again, in similar manner to the wise one, he states repeatedly,
"If anyone is offended, I can take the heat." YOU HAVE NO HEAT WITHOUT FIRE!!!!
He needs to light himself up and declare his feelings, if he truly has any, and if not, he
needs to join a chat room (Im sad).
Pat, you said you laughed when you read a message of mine....if you did, its what
I live for! When I write to you guys I smile most of the time, hoping you will find some
small respite from the tragedy we are witnessing.
As for Tracy Savage, I think I remember the story on her and as usual, it could go both
ways. She was having an affair with a police officer. He was a married man. There was a
lot of pillow talk and information was given to her. He reportedly told her the blood on
the socks had been tested for DNA and it matched Nicoles. The report came before the
socks had even been sent for testing. The prosecutors covered themselves by saying the
socks had been tested in the LAPD lab for blood typing and it matched Nicoles, the
idea being the officer didnt know the difference between blood types and DNA. Ito
let them slide on it. The world should have known better. The officer was never named, but
I remember the attorneys discussing it and they knew who he was.
As far as the call she made asking about the homicides, Im not sure. Could have
been passed to her by a telephone call from the lover...I just dont now. I wish she
would come forward and tell. Its only going to take one person to start the whole
collapse of this house of cards. What about Kato? Why would Nicole pick him up and let him
live on her property? Let him keep her children when she was out? He was a ski
bum.....party guy. So many pieces. I keep laying them out, trying to fit everything in
place. Makes my head hurt, and thats for real.
I know some people will say the OJ case is over, history. Its not. If the truth
ever comes out, what will they say? What will it do for race relations? Ive dreamed
it; seeing the prosecutors, pundits, media all in the same embarrassing position we saw
Lion in. Holy Hhhana, can you even imagine the aftermath? To be undeniably right? Think
about it. It will take your breath away. Be good, Ive got new mail. Paula
Subj: Re: In the Ring
Date: 97-03-03 08:25:20 EST
From: Puma
To: Trooper
CC: All
I think that in your "rush to judgment" you missed the point. Simpson
murdered two people, so lets call him Mr. X (and forego his notoriety and colour).
When you buy a home you also buy a neighborhood, a place of refuge that you and your
family can relax, enjoy and appreciate. There is nothing wrong in objecting to a murderer
moving in next door, any more than a pedophile, KKK member, Satans Choice club or
whatever. If there is an element of notoriety which involved the tabloids there is even
more reason to object. This is not racism/discrimination at all; it is simply trying to
protect: a) your assets, b) your privacy, c) your family. Puma
Subj: Re: In the Ring
Date: 97-03-03 08:30:27 EST
From: Lion
To: Puma
CC: All
Puma simply put and right on target! Why are there some people who have a need to
cry "racism" at every turn!
...Another thought...Could it be their own personal insecurities that takes over their
thought process? Lion
Subj: Confused but not insecure
Date: 97-03-03 21:56:30 EST
From: Hhhana
To: Puma
CC: Rabne, Judge, Trooper, Pat
Well, Puma I must tell you Im quite confused by your e-mail. I was tired
from a hard day at work when I first read it; just read it again and am still confused. I
dont believe I have the right to tell anyone not to object to neighbors they find
distasteful; it wasnt any part of my message. Objections do not prevent a person who
can afford property from purchasing it and living there if they choose.
My problem, and I hope you take another look at both messages, mine and Lions, is
the statement regarding (A) black community versus (THE) black community. I certainly
acknowledge the black community. Its everywhere, and contrary to rumor, both alive
and well. Communities, for the most part are based on economics. In a community some would
consider black, there are the "invisible" others, always.
I also would mention there are many African-Americans who consider OJ to be guilty,
just as there are many non-African-Americans who consider him to be innocent.
I dont like disclaimerswouldnt think reasonable people have a need
for them. If a remark might be viewed by others as racist and you know it, the stop gap
of, "I dont mean it to be racist," doesnt do it. If you think it
might be seen as racist, DONT SAY IT. If someone might be offended by an act,
DONT DO IT. ITS REALLY GOT TO STOP.
I also want to touch on the Fuhrman discussion. Its exactly that, a discussion.
You wont see any of us on talk shows trying to influence the public to believe
Fuhrman is the Bundy killer; it is a scenario some of us who do not believe OJ did it, and
probably some who think he did, are discussing. There is no "rush to judgment"
in either.
People who Insist on Searching Scenarios for Other Facts Find answers we all need. We
are the curious ones. Paula